Argument against- Three main scriptures in the Bible say clearly that women should be silent in church. Paul does not point to culture but to Genesis. Here are the two major texts- * **1 Timothy 2:11-15** A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent etc. * Teach- greek word is to sit and learn so you will be able to teach. (NT Wright- it’s an instructional word to come sit at the feet of a leader and learn. He is saying you shouldn’t force your culture in the church but come and learn.) * **1 Corinthians 14:33-35** ...women should remain silent in the churches. Now, there are many other texts that talk about a woman’s role as being submissive to her husband but these are the two verses that explicitly refer to church services. Seems to be pretty easy to see. However, is there more to it. **_SHORT ANSWER_**: While it can be debated as to what level of overall leadership should be given to a women in the church government, God’s Word indicates there is no reason why a woman should be prohibited from exercising the spiritual gifts for the edification of the Body of Christ. There is no verse that prohibits the usage of any gift of spirit. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. —GALATIANS 3:28 1 Cor. 11- talks about how a woman should prophecy... not if. Titus 2:1-15 (Paul actually tells Titus how an “old woman” should teach... not if) * But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine. Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled. ... ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: There are clear scriptures in the Bible that say women are to keep silent in church. Paul did not mince words here. There is no way to explain away what he said. Therefore, we must look deeper to make sure we are understanding what He is talking about. It’s important to remember that the Bible was not written **_TO_** us but was written **_FOR_** us. The truth of God’s Word is for us and is absolute but the only way to fully understand the truth of God’s Word is to realize that when the Bible was originally written to specific people at a specific time. This is actually great because it can give us not just universal truth but also truth that is applied to specific situations and cultures. That makes God’s Word even more pinpoint accurate to issues. This can open up a whole new level of understanding and makes God’s Word even more relevant to us. So, that in mind, here are some questions we must consider when looking at what Paul said concerning women in church... * Is this something that addresses a specific issue during His time or is this a universal truth for all time? * Do these verses line up with the overall narrative of the Bible? (If yes, discussion over. If no, the Bible doesn’t contradict itself. Therefore, we can know it has to do with something more specific, especially if it doesn’t not line up with other writings by Paul himself.) * Can we apply the same interpretation of these scriptures to the rest of the Bible without turning God’s absolute truth into relative truth, thereby making God’s Word null and void? Dissecting the key scriptures and placing them in the context of their time... 1 Corinthians 14:34–35- _As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church._ * \[https://www.9marks.org/article/must-women-be-silent-in-churches/\] * This verse would appear to be a blatant contradiction to 1 Cor. 11:5 where Paul gives instruction for how women are suppose to prophecy. He doesn’t rebuke them doing it. He tells them how to do it properly. 1 Timothy 2:12- _If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church._ * The word “shameful” is used only one other time in the Bible and it refers to only allowing men evaluating prophecies. Online Articles- <https://godswordtowomen.org/Preato2.htm> ———————— Book: Why Not Women? (Loren Cunningham, David Joel Hamilton, Janice Rogers) This is not my favorite book on the topic. There are some places where I feel it skirts a little too close to progressive Christianity. However, there are some good points worth noting. Highlights- * This new generation will not be bound by traditions hindering women from obeying God’s call the way my generation has. * A man’s pride destroys his intimacy with God and effectively stunts the growth of his ministry. * However, the elimination of women from ministry is actually a sinful accommodation to a culture that isn’t all that different from the male-dominated Jewish culture Jesus came to blow up. It’s not that feminism is affecting the church—it’s the church which has allowed culture to rob it of Christ’s redeeming work for women.” * We are not to use our culture as a standard by which we measure Scripture. Instead, we are to let the Bible be the standard by which we measure our culture. * Another evangelical leader of the nineteenth century, Dwight L. Moody, was eager to allow women to preach. * In Ephesians 3:2–13 and Colossians 1:26–27, Paul talks about mysteries that were hidden from righteous men and women that are now revealed. * We must never judge a verse in isolation. Instead, we must look at the entire Bible to make decisions on individual issues. Taking what we know of God and His character, we hold one scripture up to the light of other scriptures. Does a verse of the Bible seem to make God unjust, unwise, or unloving? This isn’t possible, for we know that God is always just, wise, and loving. The entire Bible shows that. If it appears otherwise in a particular passage, the problem must be with our interpretation. God and His Word are infallible; our interpretation of His Word is not. * Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:34, “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.” Was Paul giving an absolute truth or a relative statement, that is, a teaching to correct a specific situation at the church in Corinth? If Paul was stating an absolute, saying that women should keep silent in church, he certainly was contradicting what the Spirit said through Joel: “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy….Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.”30 Also, Peter quoted this promise from God on the day of Pentecost.31 If Paul was saying that women should always keep silent, he was even contradicting himself. Just three chapters earlier, in 1 Corinthians 11:5, he told women to pray and prophesy. Publicly testifying of Jesus is what prophecy is all about, according to Revelation 19:10. First Corinthians 14:3 (NASB) explains that prophecy is supposed to edify (teach), exhort (correct), and console (encourage). When Paul told the women how to pray and prophesy, he was expecting them to do this out loud and in public. * But when you do what God has called you to do, you feel at home. You are relaxed with yourself and with your calling. This doesn’t mean that you won’t have to grow. You will. You’ll be stretched and challenged, but God’s call won’t crush you. God will give you grace to fulfill what He has called you to do. And it will certainly never be boring. It will be thrilling. Book: HOW NOT TO READ YOUR BIBLE: Making Sense of the Anti-Women, Anti-Science, Pro-Violence, Pro-Slavery and Other Crazy-Sounding Parts of Scripture (Dan Kimball) * There are some questions that come up when you read this phrase in Genesis 2:18: “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” It has been incorrectly taught that this verse indicates the woman is in some way less than the man when it says she was created as a “helper” for the man. In our contemporary English language, when we think of a “helper” we may think of an assistant to a more skilled person or a subordinate. However, the meaning of the word to the original audience of Genesis is more nuanced. The Hebrew word ezer, translated as “helper,” appears not just here but more than twenty times in the Old Testament. And nearly every time it appears, it refers to God. We read in Psalm 33:20, “We wait in hope for the LORD; he is our help and our shield.” And since this word frequently refers to God, who is clearly not inferior to those he helps, when it refers to the woman here, it is not saying she is inferior or of less importance. The point isn’t about worth or value, but that God created both the man and woman so they would not be alone. God gives the man and the woman a partner, one who equally, but differently, reflects the image of God. * Miriam- Miriam, along with her brothers Moses and Aaron, led Israel out of Egypt. God sent them on a task to do this. This wasn’t a self-led feminist rebellion; it was God himself charging Miriam with a major role in bringing his people Israel back into the land he promised them. Micah 6:4 affirms her role when God says: I brought you up out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. I sent Moses to lead you, also Aaron and Miriam. * Deborah- In Judges, chapter 4, we meet a woman named Deborah who was a prophet, a judge, and a military leader for Israel. She led them as a woman and a prophet of God, and she is spoken of with respect and honor in the Scriptures. There is nothing mentioned about her stepping into roles that she wasn’t supposed to be in. * Huldah- In 2 Kings 22 we meet a female prophet named Huldah. The backstory is that King Josiah had commissioned the rebuilding of the temple, and as they went into the building project, they discovered the Book of the Law. When they read the Scriptures, the king and the people were upset because they realized how far they had fallen away from the ways of God. King Josiah needed someone to tell them what the Scriptures meant, so the high priest and the king’s advisors turned to the prophet Huldah. * Scot McKnight writes about Huldah and says, “Huldah is not chosen because no men were available. She is chosen because she is truly exceptional among the prophets.” * Joel’s Prophecy- The prophet Joel, writing near the end of the Old Testament period, provides a future picture of how God’s Spirit will clearly work through both men and women. We read in Joel 2:28–29: And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. * Esther- Chosen by God to save a nation * Jesus completely turned the Jewish world upside down in reference to how He treated both children and women. Both were to be ignored and considered second or even third class. Jesus, however, spoke well of children and included women in His ministry efforts. Every time Jesus spoke to women in the Biblical accounts would have been considered scandalous and read very carefully because it was considered something you just simply don’t do. * Jesus chose a woman to be the first to tell of His resurrection. * Jesus traveled with women * Jesus used feminine imagery for God like in Luke 15. * The church continued this in the first sermon where Peter refers to Joel in Acts 2:17-18 * Paul honored women * Romans 16- Phoebe * Romans 16:1–2: “I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.” * Priscilla and her husband, Aquila * Acts 18:26 * Possibly historical evidence say that they might have become a pastoral team over a church in Rome. * Paul talked about Junia. * Romans 16:6–7, there is a fascinating passage that says, “Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you. Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.” * There is no labeling of men only in the spiritual gifts for the work of ministry. * Romans 12:3–8, 1 Corinthians 12:7–11, 27–31, Ephesians 4:11–12, and 1 Peter 4:10–12. ![[women in ministry graphic.png]] Videos: (Positive and Negative) <https://youtu.be/EcKbEEuEkCI> <https://youtu.be/QaVVXleoAdU> <https://youtu.be/FuOFGtNHMLw> <https://youtu.be/brMpdgYaexc> <https://youtu.be/MyBe2FKnIoI> **_Notes_**: Yes to preaching no to overall leader of a church. <https://youtu.be/8F6ZBW2UpJo> **_Remnant Radio Video 1- Notes_**: _Two-point-Complimentarian_\- God created men and women equally but with different roles in the church and in the home. (Coined by John Piper and Wayne Gruden) **_One-Point-Complimentarian_**\- God created men and women equally but with different roles in the home. (Not in the church) _Two-Point-Egalitarian_\- no headship in church or home. _One Point-Egalitarian_\- no headship in church but headship in home. <https://youtu.be/zp82zHbZFaw> **_Remnant Radio Video 2- Notes_**: He talks about how Jesus blew through the glass ceiling for women in the story of Mary and Martha where Jesus said Mary was allowed to be in the place of a student. Then, The guy walks through 1 Timothy until he gets to where the BIG scripture happens. One of the great things he says is just before the debated text, Paul talks about women and saying they should dress modestly and gives details. We don’t take that literally but take it as figurative or modesty. However, many seem to take the next very literally. _1 Timothy 2:8-15_\- **Teach** (greek word- didaskein)- to dictate. To indoctrinate. Strong form of teaching or continuous teaching... such as leading in teaching like a lead pastor.) **Assume Authority** (greek word- Authenteo) - Only time it is used in the Bible and only used in 5 surviving Greek sources. This was intended to be ULTIMATE authority such as leader over all. He says he thinks this is because of the female dominate culture in that city. He’s speaking against the false god teaching in that culture. (There’s many other words that could have been used but this one was chosen which seemed to indicate something specific.) <https://youtu.be/2u9iMvvvqTc> **_Remnant Radio Video 3- Notes_**: Craig Keener doesn’t like the word egalitarianism. He likes Mutual Submission or “The Gifts are for everyone.” Craig Keener use to be complimentarian until he started diving himself in first century culture and then, it makes complete sense. He says it really comes down to Hermeneutics for the text. How are we going to read it? He says everyone acknowledges that many things in the 2 Letters to Timothy are for specific situations. They are specific with universal ideas that we can apply today. Principle- Head coverings- sexual modesty. Principle- Holy Kiss- warm greetings.  Question- How can I know about the cultures of the ancient times? It takes a lot of faith to believe certain things. Answers- Give each other grace.  To properly deal with the text you have to connect all the passages together. * All OT instances. * Prophetess daughters of Philip * Paul mentions several women who were ministry co-workers. _1 Corinthians 14_\- “Let the women learn...” We go straight to silence but it was already a really big deal that women were even allowed to learn. That was not something was was common in the time, especially in Jewish culture. It would have been considered revolutionary. <https://youtu.be/u2r8tRc41Zk> **_Remnant Radio Video 4- Notes_**: Basically this ladies testimony about them working together. They both have skill sets in the 5-fold ministry and work together. She is a **one-point-complimentarian**. Man is head of the home and he empowers his wife for ministry. She was saying 1 Corinthians had to do with women just now being allowed to even start learning. In China and other parts of Asia, women are most of the pastors. So is God only using them cause there are no men? If so, does that mean God stops His Word and rules for specific situations? There’s no evidence for that. <https://youtu.be/o0IJlvCqr7k> **_Remnant Radio Video 5- Notes_**:  With Dr. Colin Smothers. Complimentarian views. He says that the trouble passages speak for themselves. Paul alludes to the order of creation. Therefore, he wasn’t talking about problems in the church but pointing to God’s order all the way back to creation. He says it has nothing to do with ability. Women can be great teachers. It has to do with headship. Older women can teach younger women. Just shouldn’t teach men cause of headship. Just like a vice-president wouldn’t teach a president. Not because they are not good at teaching but because of an order issue. <https://youtu.be/A6uajhvsZT4> **_Remnant Radio Video 6- Notes_**: <https://youtu.be/auBBfERc_is> <https://youtu.be/chSsWbkUWrY> <https://youtu.be/xyZr-K3STsU> <https://youtu.be/zShK_3DxxKs> <https://youtu.be/-vjKn78KRzA> <https://youtu.be/HhSWJh-hWTw> <https://youtu.be/_L5vPBmcQxs> <https://youtu.be/4Oo2Upai3R4> <https://youtu.be/P2K8H4AgAiU> <https://youtu.be/qGAU1gA74g4> <https://youtu.be/CDHm7uplV6w> <https://youtu.be/cKeddYHvk94> <https://youtu.be/sEruMrLiizs> <https://youtu.be/GX5xP5AJH7Q> <https://youtu.be/N9IXrMQnY00> <https://youtu.be/LLlPju0MpTk> <https://youtu.be/ZJ5Rja_3pnE> <https://youtu.be/0U_S1USGnKE> NEGATIVE: <https://youtu.be/GuX8sdpDm-g> <https://youtu.be/jXN362BhpAs>